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Ukraine war and when Russia will collaps?

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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 06 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
How has Macron’s posturing influenced Putin so far?


The same way David Cameron posturing Ukraine can use UK weapons to hit inside Russia. Complicating Putin's war plans. If Russia knows for sure if French or other NATO troops are or will be deployed, or where weapons can hit, it can calculate accordingly. Russia can make its next move knowing where NATO’s chess pieces are or how they will be moved next. But if Russia does not know, calculations become more difficult.

If NATO gives more long range air and ground missiles Ukraine can hit Russia were it hurts air bases inside Russia. Instead of trying to shoot down 10 missiles Ukraine can shut down the bomber or hit the air field.

General Ben Hodges:

Quote:
Its better to hit the archer then the arrows. Instead trying to defend Ukraine by shooting down incoming missiles will be much more effective to shoot down bombers and destroy air fields. In Russia. Without creating out own red lines.


Red lines are just helping Putin's plans. Seriously give me one benefit for NATO of having red lines?

Deterring a war is far better than fighting one, and the strongest deterrence comes from credible, forward-deployed forces. For example NATO has three battlegroups in the Baltic states 1000 trops in each, with a total of about 3,000 troops, provided by Germany, Britain and Canada.

Obviously 3000 troops cant stop rusian invasion. But this is not the goal.
The goal with forward-deployed forces is to say to Russia if they dare to kill them they are killing German and UK troops and there will be retaliation.

If we had the same 3000 troops in Ukraine in 2022, Putin would have not invaded. The same way Macron saying there will be French troops in western Ukraine means Putin needs to plan for war with France and NATO if he dares to continue the offensive in Ukraine.

You want NATO to win or Putin will win. If you want NATO to win you have clear startegy and do whatever is neccessary for the win.

You don't prevaricate and plan for endless war and create imaginary red lines.
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 06 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
NATO will NOT get involved with Ukraine unless a NATO country is attacked. Get over it Val.
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 11 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
NATO will NOT get involved with Ukraine unless a NATO country is attacked. Get over it Val.


Plot twist: German Greens, Free Democrats and CDS propose NATO air defence forces based in Romania and Poland to protect air space over Western Ukraine and shoot down all russian drones and missiles there.
This way Ukrainian air defences will be free to fight on the Eastern front.

Article in german:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ukrainekrieg-was-waere-wenn-macron-soldaten-schickt-19710529.html

And russian:

https://www.unian.net/war/v-germanii-predlozhili-sbivat-drony-nad-zapadom-ukrainy-silami-pvo-stran-nato-12633255.html

Makes good sense to me. The sooner NATO get involved the better.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 11 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Once again. Ukraine is not in nato. Nato will.not get involved unless a nato affiliated country is attacked.

What part of this don't you understand?

Nato will not get involved because it will be world War 3 over something that isn't natos remit.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 11 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's not even much of an air war going on. This is WWI-style trenches, artillery and the joker in the pack: drones (which conventional air defences are pretty shit at dealing with.)
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 12 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Once again. Ukraine is not in nato. Nato will.not get involved unless a nato affiliated country is attacked.

What part of this don't you understand?



NATO is already involved

Quote:
NATO AWACS Flied Almost 500 Times in 2023 Helping Ukraine Repel russian Air Strikes


https://en.defence-ua.com/news/nato_awacs_flied_almost_500_times_in_2023_helping_ukraine_repel_russian_air_strikes-9215.html

Why stop there if NATO goal is Ukraine to win they must do much more.
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Val
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 12 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
There's not even much of an air war going on. This is WWI-style trenches, artillery and the joker in the pack: drones (which conventional air defences are pretty shit at dealing with.)


I wish that was true.
Quote:

The Russian glide bombs changing the face of the war in Ukraine


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/glide-bomb-russia-ukraine-air-strikes-weapons-b2526347.html
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 12 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are you petitioning your new countrymen ze Germans to get in there?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 12 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Are you petitioning your new countrymen ze Germans to get in there?


Rollin, rollin, rollin, get them Panzars rollin, rawhide!!!!
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 12 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Are you petitioning your new countrymen ze Germans to get in there?


Rollin, rollin, rollin, get them Panzars rollin, Jawohl!!!! Schnell, Schnell!!a



IFTFY. Thumbs Up
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DaddyStu
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Joined: 19 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 13 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

Rollin, rollin, rollin, get them Panzars rollin, rawhide!!!!


They'd very quickly be sitting with their Leopard compatriots in that Moscow exhibit Smile
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 14 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Are you petitioning your new countrymen ze Germans to get in there?


They will get there at some point with the Leopards.

This time try to keep up with us Nach Ost Laughing ok?

Quote:
Air defences based in Nato territory should be used to shoot down Russian missiles and drones attacking Ukraine, a former head of the alliance has said.

Nato could help shield Ukrainian cities and infrastructure from devastating Russian air strikes by firing interceptor missiles from Polish and Romanian soil, Anders Fogh Rasmussen


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/call-putin-s-bluff-and-use-nato-to-shoot-down-russian-missiles-says-its-ex-chief/ar-BB1mnc8K
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 14 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Are you petitioning your new countrymen ze Germans to get in there?


They will get there at some point with the Leopards.

This time try to keep up with us Nach Ost Laughing ok?

Quote:
Air defences based in Nato territory should be used to shoot down Russian missiles and drones attacking Ukraine, a former head of the alliance has said.

Nato could help shield Ukrainian cities and infrastructure from devastating Russian air strikes by firing interceptor missiles from Polish and Romanian soil, Anders Fogh Rasmussen


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/call-putin-s-bluff-and-use-nato-to-shoot-down-russian-missiles-says-its-ex-chief/ar-BB1mnc8K


A click-bait bonanza.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 14 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
This time try to keep up with us Nach Ost Laughing ok


Good luck, Val

(And he was never heard from again.) Crying or Very sad
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 17 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://youtu.be/lpXOJFuGkAU?si=rUh-yrYdF3n8d0VY

Bill Browden talks to UK MPs about strengthening economic sanctions on Russia (Puchen and his Kronez.)

The UK doesn't buy oil from Russia but the Sneaky Kurry Munchers buy it, refine it and then sell it to the UK.

Aside:
Russia still supplies a massive amount of oil to the world energy market.

It would be very rapidly halted in its tank tracks if Saudi and more importantly, the US simply increase production of oil.
They both have easy capacity to do so.

There is some talk that we still need Russian crude due to its chemistry. Russia produce heavy crude. Some oil products can only be refined from heavy crude.
(Venezuela produces Heavy Crude too.)
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 17 May 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://youtu.be/lpXOJFuGkAU?si=rUh-yrYdF3n8d0VY

Bill Browden talks to UK MPs about strengthening economic sanctions on Russia (Puchen and his Kronez.)

The UK doesn't buy oil from Russia but the Sneaky Kurry Munchers buy it, refine it and then sell it to the UK.

Aside:
Russia still supplies a massive amount of oil to the world energy market.

It would be very rapidly halted in its tank tracks if Saudi and more importantly, the US simply increase production of oil.
They both have easy capacity to do so.

There is some talk that we still need Russian crude due to its chemistry. Russia produce heavy crude. Some oil products can only be refined from heavy crude.
(Venezuela produces Heavy Crude too.)
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